Tax on 1099C, Cancellation of Debt Income; Short Sale, Loan Modification & Foreclosure. Exception; Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act, Bankruptcy & Insolvency. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Cancellation of debt income reported to the IRS on form 1099 C
So we talked about 20 million homeowners are upside down on their mortgages, thousands of their homes are being foreclosed on every week, property values may still be declining in some areas. Homeowners are walking away, they are doing foreclosures, there is a deed in lieu that people may not be aware of, loan modifications in many different shapes, forms and fashions and short sales.
These are all things that do have tax implications that a lot of people are not aware of. Each has its own consequences thats why we have asked Mike Patenella, a CPA to be with us today on the air. Mike tells a little bit about yourself.
Well I am a CPA. I have been in public accounting since 1988, I have my own tax practice and operate out of Scottsdale, and we focus on tax-preparation, advance planning for high net worth individuals and small businesses throughout the Valley. I moved to the Valley in 1990 back from New York.
You know, I have had the opportunity to work with Mike as a strategic partner as well and I share a number of clients. Each time I have had the honor of providing him a referral for tax work the outcome has exceeded expectations, so I am really pleased to be part of the discussions today and to work with such a great group.
It has been a pleasure, and again if you’re talking about that strategic partnership, the financial power team, as our good friend Dan Havey likes to call it, the outcome is important, but when a client calls you up or a homeowner calls you up and says thank you so much for sending me to Brett or Mike, what a great job, wow. Thats the greatest, again Mike thats why youre here with us today
So we should probably dive right in. I know we’ve been talking a lot the last few weeks about loan modifications and how Velocity Financial can help in that regard. But, help me out, even for my financial planning perspective what are some of the implications of taking this approach. For example how does the IRS look at people who don’t pay back their debt?
Well they do have a record of who does not pay back their debt because the banks have to send a form 1099C to anyone who gets any debt forgiven and what that does is it lists how much debt youre able to walk away from. And the reason they want to track that is unless you qualify under certain exclusions that is taxable income to you.
A question for you on that and I honestly don’t know for sure the answer to this, so let’s use a simple scenario, my favorite one is a guy owes $400,000 on his house and he does a short sale for $300,000. A laymen would think that there is going to be $100,000 he is going to get a 1099C for, a 1099C form from the lender that they didnt pay the moneys back for. What about the other cost the lender incurred? For instance even though they sold it for $300,000 there are still real estate commissions, title, deeds all kinds of closing costs, and things like that, that the lender loses below that 300. Do you know if thats included?
Yes that would be almost like lending you additional money to cover those costs.
So in other words if I owe $400,000 and sell it for $300,000 in a short sale, the bank is going to spend $112,000 I saw in a report today, youre getting a 1099C for that right?
In that example yes
The foreclosure cost, I just read today, the average foreclosure costs $112,000, average cost, thats legal fees, carrying cost, all these different things. Thats a lot of 1099C income.
Duration : 0:6:23
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Tax on 1099C, Cancellation of Debt Income; Short Sale, Loan Modification & Foreclosure. Exception; Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act, Bankruptcy & Insolvency. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Part 1 (Excerpt)
Expert tax advice from a CPA regarding a real estate related issues
Today’s show has a timely message. We have with us, an expert in the tax ramifications of the different types of mortgage situations that people find themselves in, we have brought in Mike Patenella, that I will introduce in just a moment, as well as Brett Fallon is back with us. Were going to be talking about the tax ramifications of short sales, foreclosures, and some of the different types of loan modifications.
Now if you listen to our show regularly, of course you know, we have been over the last several weeks, talking about loan modifications, but we have been getting hundreds of e-mails and calls requesting more information on the loan modifications. There are also some interesting questions that people ask about whats going to happen in regard to taxes. Thats the one thing that so many people are not talking about.
Well we need to talk about it. Its something that we need to bring to you that you can hear and thats what were going to focus the majority of today’s show on. Before I introduce Mike I need to introduce one of my very best friends and the best financial advisor I have ever known, Brett Fallon. Brett thanks for being on the show today.
Brett also has some information in regard to the markets and there is some really great, exciting stuff out there. But before I throw that back over to Brett, we have our expert guest today. He is a CPA and his name is Mike Patenella, thank you for being on the air with us today.
Mike is an expert in taxes, he is a CPA, he knows the ins and outs of all matters tax. His expertise in this particular area is widespread. Mike is an expert and will have specific answers to questions that we have put together. If you have had a foreclosure or youre facing foreclosure or if youre considering a short sale or bankruptcy, any number of things. Were going to touch on each just a little bit.
But we have a few numbers on our staff who are experts in loan modifications, we have put together a great video that helps explain the process, it’s about seven minutes long. And we will get that sent out to you in immediately.
Duration : 0:5:25
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Tax on 1099C, Cancellation of Debt Income; Short Sale, Loan Modification & Foreclosure. Exception; Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act, Bankruptcy & Insolvency. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Part 4 (Excerpt)
1099 C is for Cancellation of Debt Income Only, not for Interest Rate and Payment Reduction
So for people who find themselves in a very difficult situation considering these options whether it’s a loan modification or a short sale, whatever they need to do to relieve themselves of this particular burden of a mortgage, that for whatever reason they’re no longer able to maintain, they are not always considering the tax ramifications associated with taking a specific course of action, like this example the short sale option.
Right there is actually two pieces of tax component here, you have the forgiveness of debt income that we talked about, they still have the fact that you sold your house and you have to see if there was a gain on that. Over and above the cost basis of the home.
We talked about the 1099Cs a few moments ago, did you say that the lender sends a copy of the 1099C to the IRS? Absolutely.
Now I’m the guy for a few minutes ago who bailed on $400,000 and sold it for $300,000 am I going to get a copy of the 1099C if I haven’t given my lender my new address. Well that could be a problem, they will send it to the last address they have on record for you. And as a homeowner it’s my problem.
The IRS will get a copy, so they will look for it on your return, if you forget to put it on then you’re going to get a friendly notice from the IRS.
If somebody is going to do a short sale, its a fairly civil transaction and when I say civil I mean going for a short sale is horrible for them and their family, but it beats the alternative which is foreclosure, and I think the real problem is when there’s a foreclosure and the guy just walks away and moves off to El Centro California, he’s the one who’s really getting hurt.
So in the event that somebody takes a course of action, and I know that Velocity financial and Michael Barnes, youre not necessarily advocates for that short sale approach. It’s not normally the best course of action, we’ve been talking about loan modifications and it would help me when I talk to clients, or people who call from radio broadcasts who asked questions about loan modification process as part of a financial strategy, help me with some of the tax ramifications. Let’s say that I have a loan and I know the best thing for me is a loan modification, am I going to be faced with a 1099? A tax bill at the end of a loan modification?
Yes, the first of the two tax implications will apply which will be the debt forgiveness part.
I didn’t mean to interrupt you Mike, well I said there are several different types of loan modifications, I believe are you asking about when the loan modification is where they actually do forgive some of the debt?
Thats a point, I know there’s been a lot of discussion on the use of the TARP funds especially from the federal government regarding these banks that qualify for some of these funds, they have to do principle reductions for their mortgages. So let’s say there isn’t a principal reduction involved, from that aspect, its not a taxable event that could take place, since I’m not reducing my principal, I’m simply getting a reduction in my term or my rate.
That’s right, the only time that taxes would come into play is when the principal gets reduced because thats forgiveness of debt.
So let’s take that one step further, whatever mortgage interest I’m able to deduct on my taxes may be impacted if it’s a lower percentage, right because youll be paying less interest, but there’ll be no surprise 1099 coming your way if its just an interest modification.
One of the things that I like to make thing clear is that were trying to do the best for you the homeowner so you can stay in your home. The situation I’m talking about, the $400,000, the lender is more likely than not is not going to forgive $100,000, however the same lender is more than willing to reduce your interest rate so that your payment would be the same if they have done the principal reduction, because it’s not a permanent loss for the bank. If there is someone out there who’s telling you that they can have your mortgage reduced by tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, it’s not going to happen and I doubt it’s going to happen anytime soon.
Duration : 0:5:58
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Home Loan Modifications Negotiated by Licensed Attorneys. Real Estate & Mortgage Laws and Guidelines are Complex. Beware of the Banks Loss Mitigation Department. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Part 7 (Excerpt)
Attorney negotiated loan modification process Going thru the Legal Door
We have Dan Havey with us talking about loan modifications. This segment we want to talk about the specifics of the actual mechanics of, how does it actually work for the homeowner? Let me just start it off and if you would then explain the back end of how it works. Our job is to determine where you’re at now, be very specific about where you’re at with your mortgage now, what the rate is, what it’s done, those specifics. How much you make? We have to help the lender with one thing which is to establish a hardship which is crucial to this. You can’t be making half $1 million a year paying $5000 a month in a mortgage, they are not just going to lower your interest rate because you want it. There actually has to be some sort of change, financial change, hardship.
We determined that and then there is a significant amount of paperwork involved, Velocity Financial takes care of that for you. We fill out the paperwork along with your help, review all of the documentation, we then recommend be right loan modification, whether it be an interest rate reduction, or extending the term of your loan, waiving some of the balance that you owe which is very very rare. To make sure that once we’re done with this whole process you can sustain and live in that house and be happy forever.
So the process itself really is not that much different than what people went through when they got their loan in the first place. That is correct and it’s kind of funny, this has to be exactly the reverse. There is paperwork that we need to collect on your mortgages, we check the value of the property to see where you’re at and in most cases youre underwater with the value. We dont do an appraisal though, there is no credit analysis, we do review your finances, and these sorts of things but essentially it’s just like doing a loan. What we’re trying to determine is exactly what is sustainable for you.
So what we do at the modification hotline at Velocity Financial is to put together the entire package, just like we do for a loan package because we basically send this to a underwriter, theyre not known as an underwriter they’re known as a loan modification coordinator but at modification hotline we are the first set of eyes. We work with you directly, getting all the paperwork in, getting it put together because we know exactly what has to be in that file, how it has to be stacked, how it has to be presented, before it goes to the loan modification coordinator who works for the attorney.
Then once it is at the attorneys office with their modification coordinator, they take a look at it, they make sure that everything is in there, they make sure that it is a doable modification. This all happens before it is ever presented to an attorney.
There are a whole lot of steps and there is a lot of paperwork. The process like you said is very similar to a loan with the exception that there are no costs of the title company and all that other stuff. Those dont exist, we dont charge an upfront fee, and we do collect a retainer for the attorney. At some point during our process we make our recommendations and we turn it in. Then the attorney does their due diligence and thats where I really want you to explain what happens, what are these attorneys looking for?
Well this is where it completely goes off track, versus what a homeowner would do if they were doing their own modification, because they would do everything we just talked about, they would fill out the paperwork, get together tax returns, pay stubs, whatever the lender wanted and they would present all of it to the lender. Now they probably wouldn’t know exactly how to stack some of the paperwork, and how to calculate some of the things that we know how to calculate, but they would put all that they work together.
Where the difference comes in is once it gets to the attorney because the attorney ultimately wants to get you a loan modification but they can’t just call up the bank and say hey I want loan modification, because he is going to get the same result you did. So what he has to do is he has to go through the file, and he has to look for things like, I am going to use a bunch of acronyms here, he’s looking for things like TILA, RESPA, HOEPA, HUD violations, all these different guidelines that the lender was required to meet while giving you the loan.
Duration : 0:6:47
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Tax on 1099C, Cancellation of Debt Income; Short Sale, Loan Modification & Foreclosure. Exception; Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act, Bankruptcy & Insolvency. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Part 6 (Excerpts)
Arizona is not a recourse state, so chances are you will not owe 1099 C Income
In Arizona, typically its not a recourse state, so if they are telling you that theyre going to garnish your wages because you didnt pay back your entire mortgage, there is a local bank ,that was threatening a very good colleague of ours about a small second mortgage that person had taken out. Threatening to send it to collections and garnish her wages. It simply isn’t going to happen.
But nevertheless, there is still the tax implications that apply, if you need to navigate through this maze. There is a lot to it, you need to protect yourself. You talked about bankruptcy is one of those exclusions, right? One of the problems with bankruptcy is people dont understand the bankruptcy laws. They are so tight now and your feet are really held to the fire from the federal government right now. It’s not like you just didn’t make your mortgage payment, so you go file bankruptcy, it’s just not realistic. Assuming bankruptcy is the last resort option for everybody. And we certainly want to avoid that, it would not be sound financial advice from any credible source that I can think of.
Let’s walk through a case scenario, somebody who is listening to this broadcast, their head is spinning right now, they’re thinking, oh my gosh. I should have known about the tax implications, a short sale versus loan modification. Let’s start at the top and work through a quick scenario. And then we’ll point out the specifics of what they should be considering right now.
For example, we talk about this all the time and to your credit Michael Barnes and to Velocity Financials credit, you were early in bringing out the loan modification for people who were in a distress situation regarding a mortgage, maintaining or keeping up with the mortgage payment. So you started going down the path where the refinance started to become a much more difficult option, with new constraints and all the other factors that led to part of this economic crisis, a loan modification has become a buzz topic today. Driving to the station today, driving down Camelback Road, I see a sign on the corner. You know, one of those stick in the ground, homemade jobs, that says don’t refi a Loan, modify, with some success rate and the phone number.
Hang on there I want you to say the success rate. The sign literally said, 99% success rate, and it goes back to the point that you made when they say that they can reduce your mortgage principal by tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars, thats the absolute last resort for any lending institution. Thats not what this is about, so let’s start with that, then we will work on the tax ramifications of how that might work in the overall financial strategy.
I am familiar with the loan modification industry here in Arizona. There is no regulation, unfortunately. We at Velocity Financial work with a national network of attorneys, so if you’re the guy in El Centro California, or youre in Phoenix, or youre in Alaska it doesn’t matter where you’re at. We have someone who is an expert in that field in that state because the laws are different. But without the regulations some person with the ugly yellow sign on the side of the road says he has a 99% success rate, I don’t believe him it’s probably not using an attorney, who knows, dont buy into that garbage. Were going to tell you the truth, if we cant do a loan modification, we will tell you that we cant do it. And if a loan modification is not the best thing for you, you can find the some of these other options.
Duration : 0:5:19
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Duration : 0:5:29
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Attorney Negotiated Mortgage Modification for Home Owners. Expert Advice on Real Estate and Loan Mods. Avoid Foreclosure Scams and Fraud. Prevent Bankruptcy. Go To http://RealEstateMarketingThisWeek.com
Part 3 (Excerpt)
Beware of phishing schemes and bank scams GMACs clients hit hard
As promised just before the break, I told you to, listen in if you know anyone who has a GMAC Mortgage, this is one of those too good to be true things. Heres the thing, I have no issues what-so-ever with GMAC, thats not what Im saying, what Im saying is there is a scam of sorts that is going around. A client of ours received a letter, we did a second mortgage for this person a few years ago, they received a letter from GMAC, it looked like GMAC, it sounded like GMAC, and it said that we are willing to forgive your second mortgage of 200 and some thousand dollars in lieu of a one time payment, payable within the next 30 days, of say 20 thousand dollars.
I dont recall the exact amount or what it was. There is a phone number on there, it says loss mitigation department on it, a person assigned to this case. They called the phone number, they answered the phone as if you were calling into the loss mitigation department, and verified if you just send us this amount they will release the lien. Well it is completely false. It is absolutely not true.
These people are not going to seek you out on their own, now whether it be GMAC, today we have actually seen that one, there may be other ones out there. Folks, if you are getting stuff like this you need to verify it and you need to verify it by sources other than the information on the letter that you have received. If you get an email that says your bank account has been tapped into you need to check, chances are it is some kind of a phishing scam and this is no different.
We have gone back to identity theft through the mail and if you have been a party to this you need to verify and check into it, and you need to contact the authorities immediately for more information, if you need help with this sort of situation you are welcome to give us a call at 480 Velocity.
It is pretty amazing that that kind of thing still exists, and with the announcement by Paulson today that the fact is they are no longer willing to buy bad mortgages off the books of the banks. When you come across a phishing scam such as this one there is not a bank out there, I dont care what kind of trouble they are in, that is going to take $0.10 on the dollar to forgive a loan.
In a situation where things are going well, you are right in a situation where things are going well, and the status quo, they are going to be pursued by an attorney, that is entirely different, they are not just going to volunteer up and give you the money, its not going to happen.
Absolutely not and thats where we get back into what a loan modification is, who it benefits, and how it works and so forth, you are starting to see these wheels in motion amongst all of these banks. One of those wheels is certainly not well forgive $200,000 in debt if you write us a check for $20, 000.
And when we have talked about this Brett you and I have had many conversations in regard to what does it take? Can a person do this on their own, we will get to that a little later, but the answer is Yes. A consumer can actually do it on their own, up until very recently with the new announcements made from some of these major servicers and investors, up until then, a person trying to do it on their own would take days upon days and hours and hours on the phone not getting calls back trying to find time during the day while working to get this done and in many cases they are going to get a temporary fix.
The loss mitigation department for the bank that you have your mortgage with, their job is not to mitigate your loss its to mitigate their loss. They are out to protect the bank, thats why we use the national network of attorneys that we do, that are specialists, that have done thousands of these loan modifications, that go to bat for you. By the way folks, they are not going through the loss mitigation door that you would have to go through they are going right to the legal department, they are going to threaten suit if necessary, they are going to do discovery work, they are going to find out if there was anything that was misrepresented either by the bank or the broker and take that angle…
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